I saw my psychologist today and there were many tears shed about hurting you and my loss of connection with you. I didn't realise that I felt the loss so strongly. I want to stay connected with you. We are kindred spirits and I already miss you so so much.
Please do not be concerned about hurting me or others, if I can speak for them also. That happens in friendships, we deal with it, learn from it and move on. Consequently, from my perspective, and I hope, that of others on the forum, there is no reason for concern. To use a phrase that is possibly overused, “We are all in this together” and every step is one of learning. It certainly appears to me that you are well regarded here on the forum, and your potential departure demonstrated that, and was as saddening to others as it was to me.
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I really appreciate your sentiments and observations. I certainly would like the interaction and correspondence between us to continue and be constructive and helpful to each other, as well as other people who interact with each and both of us, here on the forum.
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Our connection, to which you have alluded, is in part, based on the interesting similarities and correlations, not withstanding the gender difference, with regard to our lives and points of view. I understand that sometimes, even that proximity of ideas and circumstance can be a little scary.
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The association that we have on the forum needs to be based on what we can offer each other in a “non-dependent” and supportive friendship. Because you have spoken with your psychologist today, I assume that, having discussed our association on the forum, it has been agreed between you both, that our connection is viewed as a mutually healthy and constructive interaction, particularly from your point of view. That last comment is not meant to be patronising, but based on the fact that the psychologist is very unlikely to know who I am, and could not, therefore, take my position into consideration in any more than a general sense.
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I think that my comments may sound somewhat cautious, however, I think that I need to know that your interests have been well considered, are sound and supported, or at least seen as neutral by you and your psychologist. This means that whatever you are able to share with your psychologist, with reference to the forum, and me in particular, is likely to be considered as positive for you, and certainly not in conflict, as far as can be foreseen, with any discussions that you have with your psychologist.
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If what I am saying sounds reasonable, I can say that I would very much enjoy the opportunity to continue to interact by correspondence with each other, and the forum community, as we have up till now.
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In this way, I look forward to our continued correspondence for the constructive benefit of, and humour for us both, and other members of the forum.
It saddens me to know that you are, as you said in the "Re: Not sure what to do !!!" thread, feeling hurt and some-what confused, if I am reading your messages correctly.
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I would like, very much, to be able to share with you thoughts and ideas about where we are at, at any given time. Our discussions have been helpful for me, as I hope they have been for you.
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We have built, what I think is a very interesting and sound friendship, that is, I believe, worthwhile continuing, maintaining and developing. Our friendship is another form of support that we both have and have nurtured. And while I acknowledge some "bumps In the road", we are, when it is all said and done, simply human. And having the qualities of understanding and flexibility, we can ride the bumps without too much harm being done.
I posted in the not sure what to do thread before leaving you a message here. I think I have it resolved now. I was in two minds. Firstly I wanted to still be connected to you at the same time as needing a break from the stress of the forums. I think I am just going to keep it low key here for a while. I appreciate that you are still willing to be friends with me. I don't think that it is an unhealthy or dependent relationship.
It is really lovely to 'hear' from you. I share your feeling about stress in the forum. I also feel somewhat overwhelmed at times and have to take breaks away, in which I attend to other matters, for some positive distraction, rest and recuperation. A number of other people have done the same recently, some for extended periods of time and for various reasons. It is probably a matter of setting our own boundaries, which is also a topic that I have seen come up a fair bit recently.
My response to you yesterday was not just to or for you, though I think that what I said was relevant for both of us. Being an open forum, I believe that we need to be aware of not only what ideas and information we share, but also about perceptions in the wider forum community. Consequently, I thought that it is and was, not only important to clarify the foundation of understanding for you and me, but also for the community within which we are corresponding. So, from everyone's point of view, that foundation, I hope, is now re-established and should not be a concern for you, me or anyone else.
My reference to the type or style of our friendship, again, was to be clear, not only for you and me, but for others as well. Personally, I think that our friendship is healthy and independent for both you and me, and appreciate your observation, that you consider the same to be so from your perspective as well. That certainly takes nothing away from my belief that there is a significant connection between us. It is certainly my wish, having such positive interaction between us, that you and I will be able to share ideas as we have before. Understanding that you wish to “keep it low key” I will not tag you in other threads, unless I am sure, by you letting me know and not by my assumption, that you will feel comfortable.
Our friendship simply continues. We would not have come through difficulties without the strength of a solidly based friendship. I most sincerely appreciate that the process of making some of the decisions that you have made recently has caused you significant turmoil and distress. I am very pleased that you will be here, in contact, on a continuing basis. Not discounting the other special connections that you have established on the forum, I value and cherish the connection that we have and am pleased to be someone with whom you seem comfortable to correspond, which I consider to be a special privilege.
I never said thank you to you for all the hard work and thought that you put into my pros and cons list. It was helpful so thank you for that. I am struggling since yesterday's session with my psychologist. Have spent pretty much the past 24 hours in bed just trying not to think. I had trouble getting to know myself as far as modes go and also am struggling with not meeting my own high expectations of myself. Basically in the session my brain just shut down and I couldn't think at all. I rang my psych later and told them that I couldn't do this but they weren't hearing me or weren't letting me off the hook anyway! I just tried to call my case manager now but they are busy too so I have left a message for them to call me back. My psych said I could call today if I needed to but I don't know what to say that they are prepared to hear. I am a bit of a mess right now.
Thank you for you expression of appreciation for the pros & cons list, I was pleased to be able to do it for you and me.
Your reference to "....they weren't hearing me or weren't letting me off the hook anyway!" brought to mind images of '3 wise monkeys' and of fishing. I hope you don't mind a warped sense of humour.
I understand that feeling of almost anguish when going into a therapy discussion. It is a bit like going to the dentist; there is often more pain in the anticipation than the treatment itself. Yesterday, I also went to speak with my counsellor (friend). We spoke about what has been happening over the last few weeks and, like you, I really cannot think when asked general questions. And it is really in an informal discussion that most of the relevant information and detail comes to the surface. Something else that I do is to keep a pen and paper, on a hard folder to hand, so that I can write something quickly and not forget it, or I say whatever my thought is straght away. It's up to the counsellor to keep track of relevent details. i know that these thoughts can appear and disappear just as quickly, unless they are said or written. A lot of the time the folder sits on the printer near where I sit. It is readily available.
I mention the word friend, rather than counsellor/psychologist, and discussion instead of therapy session. For me it softens the word association and makes the whole process seem more benign. Mind you, I have also to be careful about extending our association, between the counsellor and me, beyond the real position. I just use those ideas for my own benefit, and here for ours.
The question of meeting our own expectations is really a high hurdle to jump. On the one hand, we don't want to be shown up as having exaggerated our position out of all proportion to a reality that we might otherwise have experienced. On the other side, we have blocked many memories, as a self protective mechanism. The fact that we seem to go blank in the discussion, seems to support the first position, especially in our own minds, which creates further confusion. At the same time we know factually of events that we find are very difficult to recover clear memories of and process. So, hence the brain shutting down and not being able to even think of any statements, of any sort at all.
These are not bad reactions, but are simply reactions. It's interesting to say that we “are trying not to think” of something. It is almost impossible to try not to think of something because we have to think about it to not think of it. A circular argument. Really, all we can do, to avoid thinking about something, is to distract ourselves with something else - to divert our thoughts. In fact we have to try to leave all the “therapy process” in the therapists rooms. We are asking them to help us process material that we believe will improve our lives, by removing mental clutter and junk, even material that is mentally poisonous. We need to, both figuratively and literally, go in, relax and go through the removal and adjustment process, and wipe the mud off our shoes as we leave. This means mentally leaving everything there till our next appointment. Alright, easier said than done, but we need to do the best that we can, for the process to be effective and not become self defeating. It really won't do us any good to keep trying to recover memories, or pushing them away, when we are away from the clinic or rooms.
I'll send this now and would be keen to know your thoughts. We will be able to 'talk' as much or as little as you would like. Please remember that whatever I write has a reinforcing effect for me and therefore actually helps me as well. The words mutual and reciprocal are key words in our connection.
I was thinking about your more benign word association with friend and discussion used instead of psychologist and therapy. I don't think that the use of friend is going to be helpful for me. I struggle with abandonment issues and that will just complicate things in my head when the discussions come to their natural ending. Also I really struggle to leave things in the psychologists office and instead tend to continue to think about matters when I get home. Trying to nut it out on my own. My own high expectations of myself does complicate things further as it causes me to be very hard on myself. I don't give myself much leeway when I feel that I could have done better. I really want to run for the hills but in their wisdom my psychologist is not letting me. I just think if I am struggling so much now with stuff that is not very hard, how will I go with the more confronting stuff from my past? We did have a talk about me trying to avoid stuff a few weeks ago so they are aware that my tactics are all an avoidance technique probably. I just don't think I am up for any of this realistically.
How are things going for you with your counsellor/friend?
Your self-awareness, perceptiveness about the distinctions between therapist and friend are understood. My thoughts are really just to make the references less clinical and threatening. However, I also have to be careful with regard to the association which is why I said that “I have also to be careful about extending our association, between the counsellor and me, beyond the real position.” So even there, I can see a similarity in the way that you and I are thinking. I can also appreciate the feelings of loss that may occur, at the completion of therapy, if we have associated with a therapist as a friend.
Ideas that I offer or suggest are just a way of re-framing, or looking at things in a slightly different way, in order to nurture the process rather than try to force thought, memories and recollections, issues or events.
The same applies to leaving things in the psychologists office. All we can do is be aware of alternatives like leaving things behind in another place, the therapist's clinic. We are not going to be able to put these things into practice all the time. But if we are successful 25%, 32%, 63% of the time, that will be the amount of time that we free ourselves from the unpleasant parts of our lives, experience and the negative effects that have accrued as a consequence of those experiences. We then deal with them in the appropriate place and context – back at the clinic. Just because I have these ideas, does not mean that I am successful 100% of the time. I wish!! However, I do try to apply them as much as I can. Every little success is a portion of anger, fear, unpleasant distraction that we don't have to experience. And all that is part of our positive progress.
Your comment, “Also I really struggle to leave things in the psychologists office and instead tend to continue to think about matters when I get home. Trying to nut it out on my own.” is part of what I was referring to when I said, “This means mentally leaving everything there till our next appointment.” In similar fashion, it is a matter of a goal. We are not going to reach the goal all the time, but the portions of time that we succeed are those portions of relief that we accomplish and achieve. We are not doing this just for ourselves, but also the people around us, about whom we care.
“Could have....", "should have....", "must do..." and other similar terms are apparently 'naughty' words in psychology. They are closely connected with high expectations, and feelings of dissatisfaction and high levels of self-abusive and self-critical thinking. Statements like “it causes me to be very hard on myself.”, and “when I feel that I could have done better.” are really self-defeating, and also reinforce the ideas of not being good enough.
My counsellor warned me that over a period of weeks I would very likely face some uncomfortable and unpleasant feelings and memories. That was correct for me. It is natural that we are going to feel these emotions and reactions. We are stirring up material that we have kept covered, despite their continuing adverse impact that they still have had, from their secret hiding place, for most of our lives. I can certainly say that it is better to deal with this stuff, earlier than later in life. Even now, at my age, I still think that it is worth dealing with, in order to improve my future life experience.
Yep, sure, running for the hills is one option, sitting and wallowing in the “why me” mud, and other such alternatives are options. But, in each of those situations, we are still having imposed on us that which we want to clear and be rid of. We can try to avoid the effects, but the very reason that we sought professional help was to assist us in dealing with issues that we knew were having such a significantly negative impact on our lives. “I just think if I am struggling so much now with stuff that is not very hard, how will I go with the more confronting stuff from my past?” The fact is, that if we do not deal with this stuff and remove it, or neutralise it, we are going to continue to have to deal with the impact of all the easy and hard stuff, on our lives, for the rest of our lives. Unfortunately, it is just not going away, unless we deal with it. We have both tried the "wait and see if it gets better" and "we can work through this" options, and we both know that, among other options, they have not worked for either of us.
You and I have both used passive and active avoidance techniques. The passive is “if I ignore it, it will go away”. The active is some form of running for the hills, withdrawing, escaping, excluding. None of those have worked, yet they have become ingrained patterns of behaviour for both of us. When will we accept the reality that it is only by facing these issues head-on that we are going to make our lives any better.
I might have answered your last question, about how things are going with my counsellor, in the details above. I am probably in a similar situation to you, in as much as I am thinking, “this is a hard nut to crack”, an element of avoidance, but trying to relax and just saying it how it is and how it has been before. I think that relaxing, into an almost hypnotic sensation and state of mind, is the only way that I can cover life events in my child and early adult hood. That is the uncovering part. I will still have to deal with the process of adjusting the impact and improving my life in a fully alert state of mind.
