Lived Experience Forum

[tyme]

Hey there @chibam @Gillie1 ,

I'm just chiming in.... I used to think that thinking about suicide was wrong. Due to my MH condition, I actually have suicidal thoughts all the time. 

I spent years hating myself for it, and seeing myself as a weak minded. I became so drawn to suicidal ideation....

However, over time, with the help of my psychologist and my MH treating team, I've learnt otherwise. Despite having these thoughts, I'm actually quite in love with life now. I feel I now have a purpose.

It has taken years to get to this place, but I AM here.

[Owlunar]

Well said @Gillie1 

Thanks - I appreciate your comments

Owlunar

[Owlunar]

I'm sorry I can't help @chibam - to me the world is a wonderful place - and yes - I have been and I am challenged - I have dark memories in the past I no longer visit - too painful emotionally - and I have had chronic pain for a long time - I have a pretty stubborn attitude. 

For you - this is not the case - it's all pretty dark for you - and it's hard to get out of a situation of coercive control which what it seems to me to be - and I hate to say it by there is no rescue - no help - unless you go out and find it.

All I can direct you to is 1800 respect (a phone number) - because coercive control is abuse - I have never had to take that path but I know it's there. Why be worried about the happiness or misery of the people who are being so cruel to you? I wouldn't. My circumstances were different - but I took care of myself - the bottom line is that we all must. And however it might seem there is nothing vague about my suggestion - it's what I would do.

If this is too hard - then so be it - I care - if you choose to act - then that's good - if not - then that's sad but that's the way it is - you have a right to feel the way you do.

Try and look after yourself - having others treat you badly is rotten - really rotten.

But keep posting - 

Owlunar

[chibam]

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@Owlunar wrote:

I'm sorry I can't help @chibam - to me the world is a wonderful place

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So what's so wonderful about it?

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@Owlunar wrote:

Why be worried about the happiness or misery of the people who are being so cruel to you? I wouldn't.

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I can't help but be a little confounded by your logic here. Earlier, you seemed to be disapproving of your son's suicide because it wreaked misery upon everyone around him; but now your basically saying that I'm not supposed to care about the happiness of the people around me and just do what I want?

If I adhered to that philosophy, I'd be dead right now, and so much better off for it. But I, like everybody within this culture, am obligated to survive, to stave off the misery of others.

In any event, I am loathe to be a party to inflicting more misery upon the world. The reason the world is so terrible is because everybody is far too willing/eager to inflict misery on those around them, and completely unwilling to make any effort to make those around them happy. I want to be part of the solution. But in lieu of that, I certainly don't want to be part of the problem.

I know I'm playing the whole game wrong and I'm not getting the desired results out of the people around me. I don't even know whether it is possible to get a positive result out of these people with a better technique. I just want the results of my interactions with the world to produce the maximum amount of happiness possible. People doing that on a mass scale is the only way to create a world worth living in.

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@Owlunar wrote:

and I hate to say it by there is no rescue - no help - unless you go out and find it.

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Sorry, but that's just wrong.

I've been to a wedding where the maid of honor bragged about setting the bride up with the groom. My dad knows an Indian guy who arranged his daughter's marriage. Most of the guys I went to school with, who didn't go to college, were given jobs by their parents. And then the ones who did go to college were presumably given jobs by the colleges.

Rescue comes for people all the time.

Even when I look at my own life, which has been rife with exploitation, it would only take a smidgin of compassion upon that exploitation to skew it in to rescue; to take the bully who coerced me into doing what they wanted to make me do and instead have them coerce me into doing what I wanted to do. Rescue isn't miles and miles away; it is only a degree or two removed from the societal architecture we have now. All it requires is a minor adjustment of compassion.

In many ways, it doesn't even require an increase in compassion, merely a redirection of the compassion we are already spending. Giving people a job instead of a dole check, ect. Solving a therapy patient's problem outright, instead of subjecting them to hundreds of hours of expensive browbeating to coerce them into politely "coping" with that same problem, ect.

[Gillie1]

There is truth in what you say about life. It sounds like a quote I like. Pratchett has a quote for everything.

“There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half full, say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty.
The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass! Who's been pinching my beer?
And at the other end of the bar the world is full of the other type of person, who has a broken glass, or a glass that has been carelessly knocked over (usually by one of the people calling for a larger glass) or who had no glass at all, because he was at the back of the crowd and had failed to catch the barman's eye. ”
― Terry Pratchett, The Truth

Life isn't fair and too often we are told that this is our fault, if we change our perspective it would be so much easier. What they are saying is it would be so much easier for them if you didn't notice that.

At the same time, it is also true that no one is handing out free beer we have to stand up and say over here mate! and say it repeatedly.  We have to put ourselves in a position where support is available and can be effective.

That is what you are doing here talking to us standing up and saying notice me. That takes courage.

While others can support you to change your life, we can't change it for you, only you can do that, if we try we would only be putting you in another box that isn't you. We can listen encourage and be present with you.

[chibam]

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@Gillie1 wrote:

While others can support you to change your life, we can't change it for you, only you can do that...

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Therein lies the problem; particularly with the mental health system as a whole. Often the mental health system is the only entity in any position to make the necessary changes to their patients' lives. But they don't. The major hurdle is the restrictive internal rules of their own system, which forbids offering genuine assistance to their patients.

I suspect another major hurdle is a lack of resources and connections with one another to locate and arrange these solutions.

But even with that shortfall, I have little doubt that there are scores of patients out there right now, who could be helped by their therapist, if only the therapist was willing.

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@Gillie1 wrote:

if we try we would only be putting you in another box that isn't you.

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Only if you use your power to turn my life into the spectacle you want it to be, rather then the one I want it to be. If you help people with dedication to serving their will, even if you strongly disagree with it, you'd be putting them in the box they truly belong in; the box they want to be in!

[Gillie1]

@chibam I'm definitely not talking as a psudotherapist here I'm talking as a messed up user of services like yourself. I don't actually have a lot of faith in the mental health system or to be honest any faith at times.

I'm talking as a participant in the same system you are in. I've been let down by the system, damaged by the system I'm angry at the system. I am still seeking, striving to find an answer and the mental health system is only one answer to ongoing recovery. There are other avenues other tools other resources out there.

Medication has its place, and therapy has its place but they are only a small part of real long-term recovery and growth. That is how I ended up here on the forums. I know ultimately I have to do the hard, bloody, painful work to make the changes in my life that I want. No one can do that for me. It's just helpful to share that journey with others and try and support others in their journey. 

I don't know if you feel that support at the moment. I know I felt alone in it last night but I'm not and neither are you Chibam.

Take care of yourself.

[Owlunar]

Gillie wrote

I know ultimately I have to do the hard, bloody, painful work to make the changes in my life that I want. No one can do that for me. It's just helpful to share that journey with others and try and support others in their journey. 

I can see Gillie - you have reached a point I did long ago - that the choice is up to you - the hard, bloody, painful work to change our situations is entirely up to ourselves. Well done.

It's not at all easy - in the long run it will be worthwhile. I am encouraged myself reading this today - we are not alone - it might seem like it when we are all swimming for the lifeboats - we are all after the same thing basically - a better life - I do wish you the best and also - I have the strong feeling you will make it.

Great stuff

Owlunar

@Gillie1 

[Owlunar]

Hi @chibam 

I finally understand - I get it.

I wish you the best of luck

Owlunar

[chibam]

@Gillie1  I'm sorry. This thread has had me pretty wound up for the past few days. I was more raging at the universe then raging at you, or anyone else here; but I realize it probably came off as the latter. Sorry about that.

@Owlunar, I don't begrudge the fortunate their good fortune. I just think that we, as a society, need to do what we can to insure that the unfortunate get the same opportunity and assistance as what most other people have gotten. I'm speaking more in term of building connections then in terms of redistributing wealth, or any other money-focussed approach.

This is especially true if we insist on bellowing from the rooftops that: "There is help available for you!", in hopes of being heard by every suicidal person across the country; only to soonafter take them aside and whisper in their ear that there will be no help for them, and that their all on their own. If nobody's ever going to come and help, then it's high time that the mental health system and their cronies start being honest about that in the mainstream media.